How Does My Mindset Have To Change? – Episode 402

Just Maintaining (Part 4)

If you enjoy this episode, subscribe on your device for more:
Apple Podcasts  RSS Spotify iHeart Radio

When a church hits maintenance phase, pastors often wrestle with all kinds of fears—worrying about rocking the boat, messing up, dealing with conflict, or just burning out.

But what if those very fears are the thing standing between your church and its next season of growth and impact?

In the final episode of our “Just Maintaining” series, Sean and I dive into one of the most simple, yet critical, steps in reversing early signs of church decline: shifting your mindset.

---

When a church is in maintenance mode, the community gets underserved. People who need hope in Jesus aren’t being reached. [episode 402] #unstuckchurch Share on X Pastors don’t need anyone’s permission to preach more excellently and more relevantly. Maximize the hour you have. [episode 402] #unstuckchurch Share on X A healthy leadership approach is not about pushing harder. It’s about leading with vision, humility, and trust that God is already at work. [episode 402] #unstuckchurch Share on X People resist change when they don’t understand why it matters. [episode 402] #unstuckchurch Share on X

---

This Episode Is Brought to You By Planning Center

Are you considering adding a second or third campus to your growing church? Need help telling your church’s unique story across every location? PlainJoe, a Storyland Studio, has you covered. Their team of creative storytellers, talented designers and innovative architects are passionate about helping churches tell their stories through spatial, interactive and strategic storytelling. 

Reach out to learn more at plainjoe.net.

---

Get the Leader Conversation Guide

Opt-in here and get access to the Leader Conversation Guide for this episode and to the full archive. Emailed each Wednesday.

---

Share Your Thoughts and Questions on Social Media

We use hashtag #unstuckchurch on X @unstuckgroup and on Instagram @theunstuckgroup. 

---

Write a Review—It Helps!

Your ratings and reviews really do help more pastors discover the podcast content we’re creating here. Would you take a minute to share your thoughts? Just open the the podcast on iTunes on your phone or computer, click Ratings & Reviews, and leave your opinion. Or leave us 5 stars on Spotify.

---

The Unstuck Church: Equipping Churches to Experience Sustained Health

In The Unstuck Church, our founder, Tony Morgan, unpacks each phase of the church lifecycle, and offers specific and strategic next steps the church leader can take to find its way to sustained health . . . and finally become unstuck.

Get the book here.

---

---

Transcript

Sean:

Well, hey listeners, before we start this week’s episode, I’d wanna say a huge thanks to our podcast sponsor, Planning Center. I’ve used Planning Center for years in my churches and Planning Center is just a great all-in-one church management software that helps with all of the administrative challenges that you have when it comes to tracking first time guests, your volunteer schedules and easy ways for your congregation to get involved. You can do it all from one single platform. If you need a check-in system, if you need to sign up people for events, if you need an online giving solution, Planning Center helps you engage your church and keep people connected. You can get started for free at planningcenter.com.

Well, welcome to the Unstuck Church podcast. I’m Sean, your host here with my teammate Amy Anderson. Today we’re wrapping up a series on reversing the beginning signs of church decline with a conversation about the incredibly important mindset shift that needs to happen when a church finds itself in the maintenance phase. If you haven’t read it yet, I really recommend picking up the book that’s kind of the inspiration for this series by the Unstuck Group’s founder Tony Morgan. It’s called The Unstuck Church, and it’s all about the seven phases of a typical church life cycle. The maintenance phase is that first phase that you slip into after seasons of growth and sustained health, and it’s the very early beginning signs of decline. So let’s dive in, Amy, to the tension, kind of the elephant in the room, really. Whenever you’re talking to a pastor leading a church that’s found itself in maintenance, what’s typically holding the lead pastor back from addressing the situation head on?

Amy:

What I find, Sean, is pastors often know that their church is stuck in a maintenance mode. But leading out of that season can feel really intimidating to most pastors and I think there’s just some fears that tend to hold them back. And the first one that comes to mind, and I would say if it’s just at the beginning of maintenance, this isn’t as predominant as it is once we’re fully into the maintenance mode, but they fear of change rocking the boat. Many pastors worry that kind of pushing for change, it will upset longtime members, leaders, and even key donors. And when stability has just been the norm for so long, disruption, even a healthy disruption, just feels risky for them. So that’s the first fear.

The second, I think the fear of failure. You know, questions like, well, what if this new vision doesn’t work? What if we can’t do it? So this fear of trying something bold and it flopping, I think can keep pastors playing it safe, even if the current approach isn’t producing growth. The fear of conflict. A lot of our lead pastors are on the people side of the wheel, and so we don’t like conflict. So moving a church out of maintenance almost always means saying no to some things and yes to new things. And that often stirs up resistance and many pastors aren’t sure they’re ready for the pushback.

The fear of not having what it takes. Again, there’s some insecurities in here, right? Some pastors feel insecure in their leadership or their vision-casting abilities, and they might think I’m a good shepherd, not a strategist and just hesitate to lead forward and to lead boldly. There’s a fear of burnout, I think when you’re already tired, already stretched. Then I don’t know any maintenance pastors that feel like they’re in maintenance mode. They still feel like Sunday’s coming, my plate is full. So the idea of stirring up more work or more tension can feel overwhelming. So pastors stay in maintenance mode because it feels safer and less emotionally costly. And we know this leading change takes time, energy, and with that weekend always coming, some pastors are also just tired and picking up the weight of leading change can feel like too much.

I have two more. The fear of disappointing people. You know, pastors are often wired to care deeply about people’s feelings. So again, leading forward means disappointing someone, and for relationally driven leaders that can be extremely uncomfortable and in that discomfort, they don’t wanna move. That’s a good one. And then for some, it’s a little bit different one, but some fear of losing control. So growth and change often mean giving away, I guess I can say power, you know, giving away, trusting others and moving from being a doer to an equipper. And I think that shift in control can feel scary, especially when a pastor’s identity is being wrapped up in being needed. Now not all pastors are wired that way, but there are some pastors who have had this thing of being needed. I’m in the middle of everything. That’s my identity. And so releasing things, losing some control can be a fear.

Sean:

And if you’re a pastor listening today and hearing that list, you may not resonate with everything on that list, but there’s probably two or three things that stand out. Those are, that’s a real fear for me. And I completely understand. You know, part of what helps any leader overcome those things is about just getting honest about what’s at stake. And if leaders don’t develop the courage to be honest about things, where things really stand today, Amy, what do you typically start to see happen?

Amy:

If we don’t start with ourselves and just processing through what we’re seeing and being honest about it here, we don’t make the changes. So first, I just think the church gets more stuck when we don’t do that work. We know this. Without fresh vision and leadership, a church will stay in maintenance mode and just keep doing what they’ve always done. And over time, when we stay in maintenance, energy fades, momentum slows, and the church becomes more about keeping things running than making a real impact. And eventually it moves into the preservation phase of the church life cycle, making it even harder to get back to a place of growth and momentum. And when that happens, people start to disengage, right? Both staff and congregation members can feel it when a church is coasting. Without clear direction or a sense of purpose, people start to check out passion fades, volunteers burnout, new people don’t stick around, and core members may even begin to drift.

If we don’t get out of maintenance mode, what also happens is the community gets underserved. So a church and maintenance mode often turns inward, focusing on programs preferences, preserving traditions instead of reaching the community and the people who need hope help in Jesus in your mission field aren’t being reached. In maintenance mode, the leaders in your church become frustrated and sometimes they even leave your church. High-capacity leaders wanna be part of something meaningful, and they wanna move forward. So if a pastor avoids tough calls, avoids leading change, it never happens. Those leaders may either go quiet or they might go somewhere else, and then ultimately a pastor can burn out.

Ironically, avoiding these fear driven decisions doesn’t make life easier. It actually makes ministry heavier. The weight of unmade decisions unresolved tension and unmet potential. I just think it quietly can wear a pastor spirit down. You know, part of the joy about the growth side is you’re still working hard. You can still have this risk of burnout, but when you see new people crossing the line of faith, when you see new faces at your church, when you hear the stories of life’s change by Jesus, it’s like your payday. It’s what fills you back up. So when you’re doing ministry just as hard, but you’re not seeing any of those stories and we’re just managing what is, that’s where I think pastors burnout.

Sean:

Of course. Well, I know we’re talking about churches in the maintenance phase, which is a phase of decline, but I feel like we’ve really started this podcast on a down note. I think I need like a sad trombone sound effect to go in the background. But we’re gonna turn the corner because there is great reason for hope as a leader if your church is in the season. And we’ve seen many churches come outta the maintenance phase and back to health again. So let’s go there. Sorry. I’ve led you in the questions in the negative direction. So getting practical here, we know pastors all wanna lead healthy churches. They wanna be able to make these hard calls. What does healthy leadership look like when it comes to creating urgency around the needed changes?

Amy:

Sure. I agree, Sean. We see churches do this all the time. And I also wanna say it doesn’t happen in one month. You know, this takes intentionality as we go through. So here’s some areas that you need to be intentional about. Get clear on where you’re going, right? People don’t follow and get rallied around vague ideas. They need a clear vision. And as the pastor, you need to get a team together. We talked about this last week, and prayerfully discern where God’s leading your church and be able to communicate that vision simply and repeatedly: paint a picture of what could be and why it matters. That’s gonna create some growing momentum in your church.

Second, be honest about where you are. Right? You can’t lead out of maintenance mode without naming it. That means just having the courage to admit what’s not working. Admit what’s stalled or what’s just being sustained for the sake of comfort. I think that honesty builds trust and creates space for change. Third, I would say start small, but move forward. In other words, you don’t have to overhaul everything at once. Healthy change often starts with small, intentional shifts. So focus on one or two key areas where momentum can be built. For example, Sean, improving your Sunday experience. Pastors don’t need anybody’s permission to teach better.

Sean:

Right.

Amy:

They don’t have to have anyone’s permission to get more excellent, to get more relevant, to really maximize that hour. And I’ll tell you what wins in that one area can create energy in others. I would say invite others into the process. I’ve said this before, you can’t do this alone. You don’t want to do this alone, and you shouldn’t do this alone. So invite your senior leadership team and other key influencers into this journey. Ask questions, listen to feedback, give people ownership. Team buy-in makes change stick, and it spreads energy beyond just the senior pastor.

Lead with both conviction and compassion. Meaning be a leader and a pastor as you lead change. Change is hard for people. I don’t know why it is, but it is hard for people. But some are gonna be excited about the changes. Others are gonna be anxious, that’s normal. So just use your wisdom and when the people around you to be a pastor when you need to listen and empathize, and then when you just need to be their leader when they’re looking for you to lead.

And then lastly, I would just say celebrate progress as you go along. You know, leading out of maintenance takes time. I love when our colleague Chad Hunt, is working with a church in the maintenance phase. He leads them through our process and he often tells them that while the planning process took three months, right? We’re in there month one, we do this. Month two we do this. Month three we do this. He says, true change is probably gonna take three years. And I actually hope pastors listening to this find some comfort in this. He describes year one is “Hair on Fire,” where you’re just trying to figure out what are all the things that we need to do? We’re working on fresh vision, all this kind of stuff. And then year two, you begin to gain some traction and you’re now developing, you know, this planning muscle. You’re getting on track with your initiatives. And then year three is typically when you start to see the fruit of your labor.

So celebrate the wins as you go along. Celebrate the progress and pat yourself on the back and your team on the back as these things are taking traction again, you won’t get there overnight. And this is specifically true for stuck churches that have a lot of change to lead through. Don’t wait until everything’s fixed to celebrate, acknowledge growth, renewed energy, deeper engagement, anything that shows your moving in the right direction. And ultimately a healthy leadership approach is not about just pushing harder, it’s about leading with vision, humility. And trust that God is already at work in the process.

Sean:

That’s a good reminder. Amy, what specific steps can pastors consider taking just to get their leadership teams aligned around making these just necessary changes in the future?

Amy:

That’s a lead pastors team one, so that’s a good question. How do you get their buying and really get their unity around all this? This isn’t rocket science, but clearly communicate the why behind the changes. Right? People don’t resist change because they hate progress. Okay, they don’t resist change because they hate progress. They resist change when they don’t understand why it matters. So clearly explain why the current way isn’t sustainable and why change is necessary for the church’s mission and health.

Sean:

I like that.

Amy:

Second, literally set a date on the calendar to meet and develop your vision and strategies. This is obviously the type of work our team at the Unstuck Group does every week with churches. And if you need our help, please reach out, but get a date on the calendar to get your team’s input, as you’re developing your vision and developing your strategies. And then lastly, develop a rhythm of strategic focus and circle back to vision and strategy with your leadership team. Specifically, begin developing and completing tasks related to vision regular cycles. We encourage churches to do this like every 90 days. Did that make sense, Sean?

Sean:

Absolutely.

Amy:

Those regular rhythms?

Sean:

Those are three really practical steps. And something that we do with churches all the time. Our colleague Paul calls that rhythm, consistent strategic obedience. And I really think that that’s the secret sauce in churches experiencing change and growth and moving from maintenance to strategic growth when you can really just get focused on what’s important today, what’s important right now, let’s accomplish that and then start to turn the flywheel of getting things done. And churches start to make progress, see results, and then build momentum from that.

Amy, you know, a lot of concern for pastors around making the kinds of changes they need to make comes down to simplifying ministry or cutting specific ministry programs to get more focused on reaching people who are outside the church and faith. So can we spend just a few minutes talking about the first steps a pastor should take in evaluating what programs need to stop or pause?

Amy:

So moving from maintenance back to a time of momentum, it really won’t be possible if too many church programs are competing for your people’s attention. And it takes courage and leadership to clear the clutter and focus on what matters most. Even if that means making some tough or unpopular choices. So first, especially with your leadership team, normalize the tension. Right? Pruning is hard, but it’s healthy and it’s part of growing a vibrant church. It’s a natural part of ministry rhythms.

Also I would encourage you to use some natural breaks. It’s often easier to pause a ministry like at the end of a school year, and then quietly not bring it back. So in other words, instead of saying, we’re cutting this program, we’re gonna pause this program as we’re going through the process, and then there’s some of em that you’re just not gonna turn back on.

I would encourage pastors to start with core ministries. So let each ministry area on its own do its pruning first, give them the assignment. You know, you take a look at what you’re trying to do and take a look at how it aligns with our mission, how it aligns with the vision of where we’re going, how it aligns with the key next steps we want people to take and let them plan and then return with a plan to stop or pause some low-impact activities. In other words, you don’t have to make all those decisions, lean on those leaders to come back with their recommendations. In a pruning process, I encourage you to use a facilitator. Again, we do stuff like this. But there are other people you can ask, but I think you need to have somebody else carry the facilitation to guide the conversation. I think when we’re trying to do it, it’s just, it’s hard to lead and analyze at the same time it is.

Sean:

It is. Right.

Amy:

And then before you actually start pruning, make sure you cast vision before you start pruning. Right? Explain why pruning is necessary so that the church, of course can better steward its time, money, and people, to truly help others meet Jesus and follow Jesus. So vision before pruning. But you’ll probably pruning while you’re creating the vision.

Sean:

I’m glad you used that word steward because that really is what it’s about. And it’s a great reminder for church leaders. We all wanna be good stewards of the resources God’s given us. And so stewarding those resources well means sometimes doing some pruning and of course pruning’s a biblical concept, but we see it in nature. Also. If I prune back the limbs on my trees, I’m going to experience healthy growth in other areas of that tree. Right? So we see it play out right in front of us, but sometimes we struggle to do it within our church, so as a good reminder there. Once those decisions on pruning are made, what is a typical healthy transition process look like for churches?

Amy:

First I would say just lead into this process. Just be brave. Making tough calls isn’t easy, but sticking with them is what leadership looks like. That’s what we do as leaders. We make hard calls. Remember that sometimes you have to let go to grow. So not everyone will agree when a ministry ends. Well, not everyone will agree when a ministry ends, you’ll never get a hundred percent. Some might even threaten to leave if you move my cheese, if you move this program. That’s hard. But remember to move forward and grow, you sometimes have to lose a few things along the way. So don’t let fear or pressure hold you back. You know, this is not a reactive process. You put time into it; you prayed about it. You really put it against your mission, vision, and what you believe God wants to do through your church. So stay true to God. Stay true to that vision when you have to do that. But I would also say in this process, honor what was, right? Even if a ministry is ending, it’s important to celebrate the good that it brought and the people it touched. It’s like sharing stories. This is a bad analogy, but like at a funeral, right? We wanna remember what that ministry did. We’re still bearing it, but there’s things to celebrate and remembering the wins, I think can bring some comfort and closure for people.

Sean:

Absolutely. Well, the truth is too, Amy, I mean, at one time that ministry was probably very productive. We probably saw great results from it. It was a great idea at one time. Right? It’s just, we have these seasons in ministry, and so maybe it’s no longer having the impact it once had, but we should celebrate the fact that it was a great, impactful ministry.

Amy:

And we have to make room for the new, you know? Sing a new song to the Lord. Well, we’ve gotta stop singing some other ones. I mean, there’s just natural cycles when we’re doing the new things that other things have to make room for it. And then the last thing I would just say is look ahead, right? Once you’ve said goodbye to a ministry, it’s just time to move forward. So focus on what God’s leading next and figure out how to best use the resources you freed up to support those new, hopefully thriving ministries.

Sean:

Well, Amy, we’re gonna actually wrap up this entire series now, and hopefully it’s been helpful for those pastors out there that are either leading in a maintenance phase right now and they’re thinking about how can I get my church back towards health and growth again? Or they’re leading in that momentum or strategic growth phase, and they’re looking for those warning signs of what would maintenance look like in my church, and how do I make sure we don’t experience that. So let’s wrap up all of that with some final thoughts from you, with these last four weeks of conversation.

Amy:

I hope that if you are in maintenance, you’ve been encouraged because it’s a tough spot to lead from, but I hope you also heard the hope that you can turn this around. Here’s what I’d say in closing, Sean. Just when a church hits that maintenance phase, pastors often wrestle with all kinds of fears, worrying about rocking the boat, messing up, dealing with conflict, or just burning out. And because of that, it’s easy to get stuck in that place because change feels risky. But again, staying there usually means things start to slow down. People lose passion, and the church drifts from its purpose. So the key is leading with a clear vision and honesty about where you are starting with small steps and inviting others along for the journey. It’s not about pushing harder, but it’s about moving forward with grace and with courage. And sometimes, as we’ve talked about today, that means making tough calls to pause or stop ministries that no longer serve the church’s mission. And that can be hard, but it’s also necessary to free up the energy and the resources for what really matters. And at the end of the day, it’s about embracing the change God is leading you into and honoring the past with gratitude and then stepping confidently into the future with hope.

Sean:

That’s right. Well, listeners, thanks for joining us today and for this series. This wraps up our series on leading churches out of the maintenance phase. If you’d like to dive more into this topic, you can pick up Tony Morgan’s book, The Unstuck Church: Equipping Churches to Experience Sustained Health. And you can also join us for free on our webinar. If you’re listening on release date, this webinar is tomorrow. And you can sign up for that webinar as we’re gonna dive more into the differences of strategic growth and maintenance at theunstuckgroup.com/webinar. If you need the podcast show notes to go along with this week’s conversation and this entire series, you can get those at theunstuckgroup.com/podcast. If we don’t see you on the webinar tomorrow, we’ll see you back here on the podcast next week.