Raising a Generation with Courageous Faith feat. Christie Penner Worden – Episode 367

What It Really Takes to Reach Young Families (Part 4)

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Is the leader of your family ministry included at the table? 

In the final episode of our series on “What It Really Takes To Reach Young Families,” we had a conversation with Christie Penner Worden, the former Chief Mission Officer for Raise Up Faith. Christie is a strategic leader, speaker, preacher and writer who is passionate about discipling children and equipping churches to raise this next generation with courageous faith. 

REACHING THE NEXT GENERATION

In this episode, we talked about what is critical for church leaders to be thinking about when setting up their church to reach young families.

• Standout points of research
• Engaging kids
• Equipping parents

Photo credit: Vince Fleming via Unsplash

This episode is brought to you by Horizons Stewardship:

Did you know many capable households contribute more to their favorite charity than their local church? This trend is putting a significant financial strain on churches everywhere.

That’s why Horizons and The Unstuck Group have joined forces to create “The Financial Sustainability Crisis,” a guide designed to help you tackle these ongoing financial challenges.

In this invaluable resource, you’ll discover practical strategies to:

• Effectively budget and manage your financial resources
• Connect your giving to your discipleship journey
• Identify ways to ensure your ministry plan is fully funded

Don’t let financial challenges hold you back from realizing your God-inspired vision. Download “The Financial Sustainability Crisis” today at horizons.net/fundministry.

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More Episodes in This Series

• The Foundation – Episode 364
• Vision & Leadership for a Multigenerational Church – Episode 365
• Innovation & Creativity in Kids Ministry feat. Justyn Smith – Episode 366

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We use #unstuckchurch on X (formerly Twitter), and we start a real-time conversation each Wednesday morning when the episode drops. You can follow me @tonymorganlive and The Unstuck Group @unstuckgroup. If Facebook is where you spend your time, I’m there, too.

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Transcript

Sean:

This is the Unstuck Church Podcast. And I’m Sean, your host today. This week we’re finishing our series on What It Really Takes To Reach Young Families, and this will also be our final podcast of the previously recorded episodes from our friend and leader Tony Morgan. Before Tony passed away in early September, we recorded these episodes with Tony’s voice and thoughts on helping churches reach and disciple the next generation. This was a topic Tony cared deeply about, and because of that, we decided the right thing to do was to share these episodes even after his passing. So, here’s the final episode of our What It Really Takes To Reach Young Families series with Tony Morgan and Amy Anderson.

Tony:

Well, today is gonna be fun. It’s our final episode in our series on what it really takes to reach young families. And I’ve loved talking about this topic because it’s so critical that today’s pastors and leaders get this right. And I’m excited for our listeners to hear from Christie Penner Worden today. She may be a new name for to some of our listeners. So, Amy, can you tell us a little bit about Christie?

Amy:

Of course. I met Christie earlier this year, and it was, I was just drawn into her passion for kids and the next generation and her incredible mind. She is one of those rare people who are not left-brained or right-brained. She’s just brained.

Tony:

Just brained.

Amy:

Just brained. I get smarter every time I talk with her. She’s a strategic leader, speaker, preacher, writer who, again, is very passionate about discipling children and equipping churches to raise this next generation with a strong faith. And she previously was a Chief mission officer for Raise Up Faith, which, if you’re unfamiliar with it, is a faith-based media platform that exists to inspire and equip kids and leaders to live Jesus-centered joy-filled lives. And so I had the chance to sit down with Christie last week, and I’m excited to share this conversation today, focused on what she believes is critical for church leaders to be thinking about when setting up their church to reach young families. And the bonus is she’s from Canada, so you’ll get to enjoy her northern accent. So with that, here’s my conversation with Christie.

Well, Christie, thanks again for being with us today. You know, you have dedicated years of research into what motivates parents and caregivers to bring their kids to church, or I guess to not bring them church and what makes them stay. I mean, including studying global economic trends in millennials and Gen Z. So let’s just start by, you know, what are some of the standout points of the research that you wish more church leaders understood?

Christie:

Well, I think firstly, I would suggest that it’s really important we acknowledge that the majority of churches aren’t led by those who are today’s parents, to today’s kids in kids’ ministry, for example. So the average age, according to a Barna study of a lead pastor in North America is a 52-year-old man. And so we have to think about, the fact that he is preaching to the parents. So that’s the first thing that catches my mind when I think about his target demographic. It’s really important to keep in mind that the millennials and Gen Zs are sitting in front of someone who is not of their generation. The other tricky thing about that is that if that lead pastor has kids, their kids are likely either young millennials or older Gen z. And so it’s really hard for us, to flip a switch from our, our friends’ kids being kids, to allowing them to be adults and fully participate in church as adults, to have a voice to wanna see change. And so it’s, it’s really important to acknowledge that often, today’s parents and the ones who are bringing kids to church are the same age as the lead pastor’s kids. And so they need to shift how they see that generation, even though they may have known them when they were 2, 3, 5, 10 years old, or when they went through that phase as a, as an adolescent. So that’s really important to keep in mind.

I think the most difficult thing for today’s leadership teams, to do is let Gen Z have a voice. They are a generation known for advocacy, and so their voice can be a bit cranky, the things they want or need may sound unfamiliar or unnecessary to some leadership, but it’s very difficult to give voice to people that you still see as kids instead of emergent adults or young adults.

Likewise, millennials are known as the generation who quit going to church through adulthood. So, or at the beginning of adulthood that we had those studies 10, 15 years ago that looked at that research, but that doesn’t account for the droves of millennials, who are bringing their kids back to church. It’s not that they didn’t want to go to church anymore. It’s maybe that they felt it was irrelevant at that stage of their life, or they were on an exploration, but that they have kids, often their parents will bring kids to church. And so we’ve got grandparents dropping kids off and trying to get a scope of who are the caregivers and the people on the faith formation journey with kids is a really important, onion to start peeling within your church context.

The thing is millennials, may have not resonated with the way church was run when they were little. And so fascinatingly, millennials will check out a church’s kids’ ministry on their website, even if they don’t have kids.

Amy:

Oh, wow.

Christie:

They will measure relevancy. They will measure whether it’s contemporary enough or not, based on what they’re offering to kids. Because if they see something that looks like what they had as a kid and they left, they will choose to opt, they will opt out, they will look for a different church. They know the impact of, that kids’ ministry or youth ministry had on them. And it matters to them that a church does that well, because that may be why they left. And so, how a website is put together is incredibly important. Millennials are digital natives. Gen Z has never known a world without internet or smartphones or, connectivity, online connectivity. So that’s really important to also keep in mind.

The other thing is in, I always read Deloitte’s Global Economic Study. Each year they put out this brilliant study. They cover at least 40 countries in the demographic that they’re studying, and then come up with these numbers. Their survey that they do every year on the habits and choices of Gen Z and millennials, and a few standout findings in 2023. I don’t believe the 24 study is out yet. That I think church leaders should consider is that millennials have reshaped the economy. And they didn’t just do that because they’re smart or the most highly educated generation in history. They did it, through the experiment, experimental and now permanent gig economy. So millennials basically, smashed the corporate ladder. One, because they didn’t like that that’s how you climb. They look at merit. They look at, you don’t just earn a seat. You are smart enough, or you have the answers. You, you should be, if you’re qualified, I should be allowed to apply even if I’m 27. So when they look at corporations with a ladder, they say, well, I could do that myself. Why would I work for someone else when I can do it myself? Thus emerges the gig economy. And now millennials are poised to be the wealthiest generation in history. Why does this matter? Well, millennials put their money where their passion is, and they are very, very passionate parents. They are the digital natives, like I said, but they are the parents of Gen Alpha. So Gen Alpha is like a third generation. We’re now three generations into being born with the internet. But they also don’t have a problem putting their kids on the internet at a young age. 68% of children in the US aged zero to four own their own device.

Amy:

Wow. I’m just feeling old right now as you’re talking.

Christie:

Well, and I think about how I parented that limiting screen time and, you know, finding ways to engage eye to eye. There’s nothing wrong with the, you know, the way different generations have parented. We just have to acknowledge that there is a trend and there is a turn. And it’s not bad. It’s just different.

Amy:

It’s just different.

Christie:

I think we have to think about it as different. The way I was parented was different. I mean, I didn’t have my first email address until I went to university. So, that’s way different. When I, when I gave birth to my kids, I grabbed the Gmail address for their name once they were named so that they would have that email address. And so it’s just a it’s just different. And so they want, millennials want quality experiences for their kids. And when I say they put their passion, their money, where their passion is, if they are the wealthiest generation in history, that’s, that’s something to pay attention to as a church. That they have money that they want to put towards causes that they believe in.

Gen Z will put their money where their advocacy is. So that means we need to care about the things that they care about. And I think we need to take them seriously when they care about parenting, even though they’re parenting differently. They parent more democratically, I would say. Like, they’ll ask their children what they want for dinner instead of saying, this is what you’re having for dinner. And you will eat it. Or it’s this or nothing. There’s more democracy in the parenting. And then also there’s, besides democracy, there’s also advocacy. So they’re raising their kids to believe in things. So, whether it’s using cloth diapers, or only buying, pre loved clothing or, buying wooden toys instead of plastic toys. There’s lots of trends that show creation care and awareness of climate change, the health and wellbeing, the, the holistic health and wellbeing of their children. These are things to pay attention to that we as the church need to understand and partner with them on. Maybe stop rolling your eyes at the things that matter to them and wonder, get curious about what they care about and start caring about the person who cares about those things.

Amy:

So, Christie, if a church is engaging young families, it’s pretty easy to see. I know when I walk into our weekend services, there’s littles all over. But I think what’s less obvious to the, like the outside observer is all the decisions that have been made to become a church those parents and kids want to attend. So what do you see as some of the critical elements in the mindset of leaders at the church that’s effective at reaching and engaging young families?

Christie:

So I would say that safety is paramount. And they will look for language that communicates safety on a website. Millennial and Gen Z parents will shop online for a church long before they show up at your door. They, I mean, they’ll read the menu of the restaurant they’re going to tonight before they ever go to the restaurant. If they’re doing that for the food they eat, they’re definitely gonna do that for the church they attend.

Amy:

Sure.

Christie:

So safety is really, critical to them. Beyond that, what churches are doing, where they have this engagement is they believe kids’ ministry is church. They don’t believe it’s a program down the hall where the kids can be kept quiet and out of the way. Kids ministry is church. And I often hear, Kidmin leaders or volunteers complain about missing church in order to serve, or I just wanna go to church. And, even leadership teams at church is mandating that you get to a service on Sunday. And my question to them is, where do you think I am as a kids pastor on Sunday? Where, where did you think I was? And what did you think I was missing? So, what I found was the empowerment to speak that into my team as a kid’s pastor did two things. It meant they showed up expecting to worship at kids’ ministry. So their engagement level became less, babysitting or less just presence and more participatory, because if this is the church service you’re going to on Sunday, you’re going to church in the basement, or you’re going to church in the East Wing, or you are going to church in the auditorium, when we start talking about it that way, they seek to get something out of it and put something into it. So the way we worship with kids changes when the adults in the room know that this is the worship service they’re getting and providing.

Amy:

That’s right.

Christie:

I think the other big piece that would be important to pay attention to is, in a church where there is a thriving kids’ ministry, the kids’ ministry leader, pastor coordinator, is likely at the leadership table.

Amy:

That’s right.

Christie:

And if they’re not church, why not? Why do they not have a seat at that table? Why I say that is because the most critical and difficult questions that parents are asking today, they’re primarily asking the Kidmin leader. They’re primarily asking the Sunday school teacher, the kid’s pastor. The person on staff who is spending time with their kids. If they’re struggling with something in their child’s life, they’re likely coming to the kid’s pastor to do that. They need a seat at the leadership table. The other thing that, is not often thought through, but is often true, is those leading today’s kids are most likely the least theologically trained on the church staff. And they feel the weight of the mantle of raising up spiritual giants for the future church. They feel the weight of that. And so allowing them opportunities to grow, to get training, to dig, to ask questions, but also honoring their role that because you have the next pastors at your feet, we need to hear from you at the leadership table. Give them a seat. They are not there to ask for more money for toys. That’s not why they’re there. But kids pastors are leading a church, just like a lead pastor is leading a church, but they’re doing it with a fraction of the budget, and they’re doing it with a giant team of volunteers instead of staff. There’s so much goodness to be learned from leadership development of kids pastors because of what they are, what they are being called to do in their role.

Amy:

What a great reframing that kids ministry is church. And that the parents who we were just talking about are coming to the kids’ pastor for, for help on their spiritual walk, help with parenting, and that they, are the least theologically trained. But churches that are reaching families well probably are, are addressing all those items. Let me ask you another question. As Chief Mission Officer at Raise Up Faith, you focused on getting kids ministry leaders, what they need to engage kids the way they’re wired to learn. Share some of your learnings and what seems to be important right now.

Christie:

So in the same way that lead pastors statistically are, 52-year-old men, kids pastors, or the leaders of kids ministries are typically 53-year-old women. So these are not by and large technological wizards that are running kids’ ministry. They are also part of my generation Gen X that would likely feel that limiting screen time is an honorable choice. The problem is that doesn’t resonate with today’s child, and it doesn’t resonate with today’s children. And so, what we know for sure, and it especially escalated during the pandemic, is that kids can and do learn on screens. And in fact, we can leverage the brilliant minds that invented the internet and invented ways to connect. We can leverage all of that brilliance for the sake of the kingdom. So, using online tools or digital material isn’t less effective. It’s actually more effective. And to the point of your kids, your Kidmin leader being the least theologically trained, if we can find quality program that exegetes the scriptures on a video that’s engaging and has many things happening at the same time, it takes that theological weight off of the kids’ ministry team and puts them in relationships.

So rather than them spending all week trying to figure out why did Solomon threaten to cut a baby in half, and how am I gonna explain this to a room full of toddlers, they will, they will know that the story of scripture will be told well, and they will be in the room with the kids when they see it on a screen, for example. And then they engage relationship by asking great questions by, you know, let’s play a game. Let’s figure this out. What do you think about this? They get to grow curious about what the kids heard or saw or liked about that particular piece of media. And it puts them in a place of being relational rather than instructional. So I think technology can be used, to get better theology in front of our kids by trusted resource providers.

Raise Up Faith has thousands and thousands and thousands of digital assets. And I think what it does too is lighten the burden of planning for Sundays for, children’s ministry leaders. They usually are paid less hours than they actually work or than it actually takes. And so, taking some of the administrative weight off of them and putting, tools in their hand that make it easy to connect with kids is important. The big shift for them is accepting that doing things digitally isn’t a cop out. You aren’t serving Jesus less well if you are using tools that kids understand. It also gives you a great opportunity to call up younger leadership when you see the gifts of the spirit showing up in kids and youth and maybe their gift of service or gift of hospitality or gift of being behind the scenes, those kids that wanna be helpful or doing what the adults are doing, and they don’t really feel like they wanna be actively worshiping. Can you use kids and youth who know technology way better than you do to run the sound board, to run the video content, to upload the content for the team the week before. Can you call them into acts of service at an age where it is no big deal to them? And it takes the weight off of you from doing something that not only are you not sure about, but you’re not sure you like. So that’s part of what it means to, give kid ministry leaders what they need, the way kids are wired to learn. That’s, we can stop pointing to the negatives of screen time and start looking at the, benefits we can leverage.

Amy:

You know, one of the things that you’re sharing is, when we often talk to multi-site churches, one of the things we talk about is we want your campus teams to be focused on relationship. And helping people take their next steps, not recreating ministry strategies. And what you’re talking about here is let’s leverage some of the best of the best theological, you know, kid products and let’s let our teams really focus on those relationships and helping kids take their next steps.

Christie:

That’s exactly right. And with the way Gen Z and, Gen Alpha, gen alpha is the kids of millennials are the kids of millennials. The, when they have relationships online, I learned this during COVID and I had to apologize to my son ’cause I was limiting his screen time, the same, like the same way I did as pre covid, which is impossible because now school was online. But what I learned during Covid is that my son was far more an extrovert than I imagined or knew ’cause I’m not at school with him every day, and he’s pretty quiet when he gets home. But when I took away his screen time, I took away his relationships. And so never underestimate the value of connecting with a kid in whichever way you can connect with them or they feel comfortable connecting. Obviously there are safety parameters to put in place when you’re connecting with kids online, but never underestimate the power of those connections and the reality of online relationships. Those are real relationships. They’re not less than.

Amy:

Alright. So today’s parents are now the drivers of today’s economy. How do you see that impacting giving? How do you see that impacting growth and stickiness in their church experience?

Christie:

So millennials, definitely, have come through. You know, they’re, they have memory as a child of the word terrorism becoming a household word of, 9/11 of the real estate crash in 2008. That was all part of their childhood. And so, I think what I’ve felt most important to these parents that are coming in today, that first thing was safety. But if a church is attracting and creating a sticky environment, they are a church that practices transparency, transparency, transparency. We don’t like being hoodwinked. We don’t, the terms like gaslighting, narcissism, these things that we see creeping into our churches or coming out in the news or the way our leaders are being painted one way or another, whether true or not. The, our, our best, armor against, the ill that can creep into our churches is transparency. Talk about hard things. Be vulnerable as a leader. Point to things that you are learning or you don’t have figured out yet. Humanize your own leadership. Humanize the staff team. Do not, take the stage as a stage. That permission to stand in front of anyone is holy. And so put on the mantle of holiness when you take that stage and live transparently and vulnerably for the sake of believability with a very skeptical generation of parents.

I think how we talk about real life and how we invite different generations to speak into decisions impacts growth and stickiness. So, for instance, there was a 7-year-old, in my ministry at one time who I absolutely knew had a pastoral gift. And so I went to his mom and I said, I’d like you to pray about this because I think, I think Nathan might be a pastor. Like, I think that’s part of who he is. And she cried. She just thought it was so beautiful that we could call this out in our kids. And so we gave him chances to do things like be in front of others, to answer, to read a verse, and then share what he thinks God is saying in that verse. That the opportunity to put kids in front of adults, not with jazz hands and musical theater, not for performance, but rather to speak into the body of Christ as an equal member of the body of Christ that isn’t just in endearing, that matters to today’s parents. It allowing kids to get baptized. For example, if it’s, if, if that’s your church context where you make a decision to be baptized. Having a rule around who can be baptized needs to be more about belief than it does about age. So that we trust that these kids believe, and that they, they are having holy experiences and spiritual encounters with the Holy Spirit. Make your church a place that believes they can change the world because today’s parents believe they are raising world changers.

Sean:

Hey, listeners, this podcast is free to you, but it takes considerable resource to produce and it wouldn’t happen without our sponsors. This week’s podcast sponsor is Horizons Stewardship. Did you know that many capable households contribute more to their favorite charity than to their local church? This trend is putting a significant financial strain on churches everywhere. And that’s why Horizons and The Unstuck Group have joined forces to create the financial sustainability crisis guide designed to help you tackle these ongoing financial challenges. In this resource, you’ll discover some practical strategies to effectively budget and manage your financial resources, connect your giving to your discipleship journey, and identify ways to ensure your ministry plan is fully funded. Don’t let financial challenges hold you back from realizing your God-inspired vision. Download the Financial Sustainability Crisis guide today at horizons.net/fundministry. Don’t wait. Visit horizons.net/fundministry to get your copy now.

Amy:

Christie, today’s kids and youth are talking about identity and often very differently from the adults around them. And you just released a book on this subject to equip parents. How can we walk well with them through the questions about they have, about who they are and how they fit into the family of God?

Christie:

Yeah, I did. I shirk when I think about, the obedience of writing this book, because it’s a really tricky topic. I think the first thing that’s tricky about identity is that we all think we mean the same thing, even though we haven’t defined it out loud necessarily. And so identity. I’ve had many conversations about identity in churches where they think we’re having a same-sex marriage conversation. And that isn’t necessarily a part of the conversation at all. And so, being, again, going back to that transparency and being really clear about what you mean, meaning what you say, and saying what you mean around any subject that is culturally relevant. So the book I wrote is called the Me I Was Made to Be. And it’s meant to help Christian parents navigate the identity conversation.

And I think, we have to be able to do more than say my identity is in Christ. Because for me, my identity is also many other things. I am a pastor. I am a mother. I’m an extrovert. I’m a woman. Our identity is complex. And so we, that, that default setting to say, well, my identity is in Christ. Okay? But that would make us all clones if that was the fullness of our identity and the beauty of who God is and his creative imagination for his, his beloveds is that we are each unique. We each are made to reflect a different aspect of the image of God. Imago Dei image bearing image of God and imagination come from the same places. And we each have a different imagination for the kingdom of God. And we miss out when we do not tap into that imagination in each and every person.

Our image-bearing status does not come with salvation. If you have breath, you are an image bearer. Salvation is something else. Salvation identity in Christ that’s about salvation. But being an image bearer is all humans ever. And so what it did was actually create this hunger within me, to expand the kingdom of God. I am missing out on some of what God wants to teach me about who he is if I don’t pay attention to all of his creation. People I disagree with. People I haven’t yet met. People I would like to unfollow but have something to learn from by continuing to follow them. Our culture wants to, be myopic about what things mean. And I think the more creative we can be in our imagination for the kingdom of God, the more curious we will grow for what we miss out on if we don’t include diversity, equity, diversity and inclusion are very high values to Gen Zs especially. And so if they don’t see equity diverse diversity and inclusion in your church, they’re less likely to trust that it’s a safe place to invite a friend, a safe place to come and hear diverse voices. They’re less likely to experience worship in more than one way. And they are looking for that diversity.

They’re looking for that inclusion of different generations and different styles because they know the world is complex. The internet has shrunk our world. We have access to way more information. Our kids have access to way more information than we did as children. And it is shaping their worldview by the age of 13. And so we have to be engaging with children who are of diverse backgrounds, youth, young adults, millennials, adults of every generation to really get a full picture of who is the kingdom of God today.

So I would say most importantly, leave room for wonder and self-discovery. Ask more questions than you answer about identity. Also, leave room for the Holy Spirit to speak. Assume that the Holy Spirit is already having conversations with other people in the room, not just you. And assume that every conversation that you get to have is joining in with the Holy Spirit. Assume that you’re looking at an image bearer. You might not be looking at a kingdom member yet, but you are absolutely, definitely looking at an image bearer. And I think that softens our gaze. I think that softens how we look at someone who we disagree with, someone who has different opinions about things that have been written about and talked a lot about in scripture, but maybe also leave room for the mystery of God and the mystery of scripture.

Amy:

Christie, thank you so much for being a part of the conversation today. And I just wanna give you the opportunity, you know, do you have any final thoughts that you’d like to share with the thousands of senior church leaders who listen to our podcast every week?

Christie:

I think the one thing I would say, especially in this era of polarization, whether it’s political polarization, global polarization with opinions and wars that are happening, I would say preach the gospel. Preach the gospel over and over and over. Never grow weary of talking about Jesus. Never grow weary of being curious about the ways of Jesus. There are subjects you wanna tackle, and there are political issues you want to tackle. Save those for some night during the week on Sunday, when you have the attention of the parents of this next generation preach the gospel because they don’t necessarily know how to do it for their kids. They will learn from you how to talk about Jesus to their kids. Always assume that whatever you’re going to say is going to be repeated. So make it worth repeating. And the thing worth repeating over and over that I have never grown tired of hearing, is the story of the gospel.

Tell God’s whole story from Genesis to revelation, knowing that Jesus is not only the middle of that story, but the fulcrum of every story told since. Jesus has a lot to teach us and there isn’t enough time in our short lives to grow weary of preaching the gospel. Grow excited about building the kingdom of God, but actually build the kingdom of God in real time. Invite people to join the kingdom of God over and over and over and talk about it like it’s as beautiful as it really is.

Make it a place where people can see that the fullness of who they are is accepted and loved and welcome because that is who our God is. God is love, and Jesus is the way. We don’t have enough Sundays in our lifetime to say that, and we don’t have enough time with each parent to teach them how to raise their children up in the way they should go. There’s one last stat I’ll leave you with, which is a bit staggering. 91% of kids ministry leaders think it’s the parent’s job to disciple their own children. 56% of parents think it’s the church’s job. It’s time to have a conversation about walking hand in hand about building the kingdom and sharing the gospel.

Tony:

Amy, I love Christie’s passion for reaching kids and their parents, but what stood out to you from this conversation?

Amy:

Boy, there was a lot of great content in our conversation, things to be thinking about and things to be challenged by. But there were three things that really stood out to me. First and no surprise coming from the staff and structure girl here. Just how important it is for the leader of your family ministries to be around that leadership table. So many parents decide to come and stay at your church based on the experience for their kids. And I love how she reframed that role as the pastor leader of the kids’ church, similar to a senior pastor. And again, just how that critical voice needs to be around the table.

Tony:

Yeah. In fact, Amy, if I could add to that, what stood out to me is that conversation of how she reframed the kids’ experience as church and how that experience changed when volunteers began to approach that ministry environment that way.

Amy:

Yeah. I loved how that transformed the volunteers’ experience. You know, my first conversation with Christie, so not on this recording, but she actually had more volunteers connected in her kids’ ministry when she was a kid’s pastor than kids that attended the kids’ ministry. Can you imagine that?

Tony:

Oh yeah. That’s awesome.

Amy:

She had more volunteers than she had kids, so she practices what she preaches. The second thing that stood out was the importance of a church’s website related to kids’ ministry. If you remember, she said, millennials will check out a church’s kids’ ministry on their website even if they don’t have kids. And it’s how they’re checking for relevancy. And tied with that was her quote towards the end where she said, gave this challenge, make your church a place that believes they can change the world because today’s parents believe they are raising world changers. And that whole time she was talking, I was thinking about my own millennial kids and I was nodding, she’s right. That’s their mindset. Most healthy growing churches do have great pages on their website dedicated to kids’ ministry, but I think at least I was challenged, we have to raise that bar even more.

And lastly, Tony, I really appreciated her challenge to get the kids team focused on relationships and asking great questions with the kids instead of pouring so much time into writing and forming the curriculum, you know, make the environment ultimately more relational and less instructional, and of course, safe and secure. By the way, if you wanna learn more about the last conversation related to her new book, the Me I Was Made to Be, that’s written for Christian parents navigating the identity conversation, we will put a link to it in the show notes for this episode. Tony, did you have any final thoughts before we wrap up today’s conversation?

Tony:

Well, again, if Amy just, it feels like we so rarely, unfortunately talk about how churches need to be intentional reaching young families. But going back to the very first episode in this series, what we see are churches are growing more and they’re seeing more people cross the line of faith when they are intentional about being multi-generational churches. And so just, I wanna say it again. We’ve said it many times. This is not church focused on next generation; it’s church focused on being a multi-generational church. I believe that’s the picture that God has for his church. So it’s not just older generation. It’s not just, I still consider myself to be mid-, Amy.

Amy:

Yeah, I like that.

Tony:

And it’s not just the young generation. It’s all generations. That’s the picture of what God has for his church. But to do that, we have to be very intentional about reaching young families and their kids and students.

Sean:

Well, thanks for tuning into this week’s podcast. Here at The Unstuck Group, our goal is to help pastors grow healthy churches by guiding them to align their vision, strategy, their team and action. In everything that we do, our priority is to help churches, help people meet and follow Jesus. If there’s any way we can serve you and your church, reach out to us today at theunstuckgroup.com. Next week, we’re back with another episode. So until then, have a great week.