We’re back with another “Ask Anything” episode!
How do you break through the 500 barrier? How do you decide which programs to prune? How in the world do you free up room in your middle service?!
Sean and Ron Baum, a long-time consultant at The Unstuck Group and ministry leader who has served in the local church for over 30 years, answer these pressing questions and more in this episode.
If you have a question for the next “Ask Anything” episode, call our voicemail line at (615) 398-9171 or send us a message on social media.
When churches get into the "we, they" issue, the campus pastor is the one to say, "Nope, it's us. It's not we, they." [episode 459] #unstuckchurch Share on X If a program gets resources, time, people, communication and it doesn't help people move along spiritually, then it's something to reconsider. [episode 459] #unstuckchurch Share on X With a clear, concise, compelling vision, we can have some strategic alignment to move things forward for greater growth, more people coming to know who Jesus is, and more people growing in their relationship with Jesus. [episode 459]… Share on X
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Transcript
Sean:
Well, welcome to the Unstuck Church Podcast. I’m Sean, managing director here at the Unstuck Group, and we’re back with another installment of what we call our Ask Anything episodes, where we actually turn the podcast over to you listeners and answer your questions from our voicemail line and social media. But before we get into the questions, let me introduce my co-host for today, Ron Baum. Ron is a longtime consultant here at the Unstuck Group and a ministry leader who served for—if I can get this exact, Ron—39 years in the local church. I’m not calling you old, but that’s a long time to serve in the local church, Ron.
Ron:
Either way, it makes sense. You know, Sean, the idea for this Ask Anything episode came from our free webinars. Typically, we leave 15 minutes at the end for live Q&A, and some real gold has come from those events, in that live conversation, and we wanted to bring some of that fun and magic to the podcast.
Sean:
That’s exactly right, Ron. I actually really love the Q&A at the end of those webinars. It’s just fun to hear questions from churches that are listening to content, but they have unique questions specific to them and their situation, and so it’s fun to dive into that.
And we’re going to get to those questions, but before we do, I want to say thanks to our podcast sponsor, PlainJoe Studios. Our most recent Unstuck Church report that just came out several weeks ago found that the average church is actually growing by 12% year over year. And those are churches kind of in our tribe—not necessarily the Big C Church across North America here, but churches that are connected to us. And there are a lot of those churches that are paying attention to their worship spaces, their buildings, their facilities. And the creative team over at PlainJoe comes in and works with churches like that to create beautiful, engaging spaces to help them better connect with their community.
Their team of architectural, design and branding experts help transform spaces into attractive, engaging hubs. And if that’s an area that your church could use some help, reach out to them today at plainjoe.net.
Ron:
All right, Sean, let’s get to the fun. Let’s get to the questions that have come in. I think they’re really good ones today. And so we’re going to dive in. So first of all, Richard, he asked this question: “In your experience, what are churches that are stuck between four to 500 people for years getting wrong that prevents them from breaking through the next level?”
Sean:
Yeah. My gut response to that—and I hope this doesn’t seem like a cop out on the question—but a lot of times it comes back to the senior pastor. And the senior pastor in churches of this size is carrying too much. And it makes sense, because when a church is 200 people, maybe a little less than that, the senior pastor has to assume a lot of duties, right? The job description is long. But as the church grows, the job description has to get more condensed, more focused. And oftentimes what I find churches bumping against this 500 barrier, the senior pastor is trying to continue to carry those things while also scaling up the systems and leadership of the church. And there just isn’t time to do all of that. And so quite literally the senior pastor becomes the lid. The shift that needs to happen for a lot of pastors is that they have to be ready to set aside some of the doing that they were focused on in the past and really lean into being a developer of people and a talent scout.
And what I mean by that is just, how can I get really good at seeing the capacity and potential in other people and then handing over responsibility, opportunity, leadership, even if I don’t feel like they’re fully ready to the extent that I am today. So if they could do it 80% as well as me, let’s go ahead and hand that over to them. Now, I’m talking about delegation. I’m not talking about abdication. We’re not giving them a responsibility and then walking away and wiping our hands clean, right? We’re going to be there to continue to help, continue to add support, provide coaching, but we really have to become a great developer of people.
Now, I think what I’ve seen as I’ve worked with pastors in churches of this size is sometimes what they run into is they can self-assess, “I don’t think that’s actually me. I don’t think one of the giftings that I personally have is to step in and develop people.” Who do you have on your team right now that maybe you see that potential in? If you know it’s not in you, you know what it takes, who do you see that has what it takes to be able to do that? I would give them the responsibility, allow them to champion leadership development in your church, identifying people, giving some of those things away.
In addition to that, helping you sit down and look at that long task list. What are the things that somebody else could do? Again, you know, Ron, we go back to our four roles that a senior pastor can’t delegate, that book. We just did a whole series on it. If you don’t have that ebook, download it. But if we’re looking at all the things that we can’t delegate, let’s make a long list of the things that we can and bring somebody alongside us to help us begin to identify people who we could hand those things off to. And again, delegation is very different than abdication. We’re not saying we’re not involved in this. We’re not saying we don’t have any level of responsibility in it, but we are turning over the ultimate responsibility to somebody else. Ron, you’ve worked with churches this size as well. What do you see?
Ron:
Yeah. I would add to what you just said there, to take a look back at your vision and make sure that you’re not operating as a church of 250 in that 500 range. In other words, have you reset and recast your vision? And remember, vision is about where you’re heading, what’s the destination? Are you looking now at what it takes and where you’re heading to get to be a church of 750 or 1,000? And some things have to be rethought, whether it be governance or staffing and structure or specific initiatives to look forward to. Because at 500, you’re probably running two services. They’re probably feeling full in the building that you have. There’s money in the bank and everything’s feeling good and everything’s kind of clicking away, ministry’s happening. And we lose sight of looking ahead to what’s next.
And so I would just encourage that lead pastor to take a look at that vision script that they’re working from. Or if they’re not working from one, contact us and let us help you with that.
Sean:
Yeah.
Ron:
But the intention being a new vision to say, “Hey, we’re not going to keep operating like a church of four or 500. We’re going to be a church of 500 that is going to begin to act like a church of a thousand. And so what does it take to get there?” So I’m just an advocate for a clear vision.
Sean:
I love that, Ron. And this ultimately comes back to stewarding your people well, right? I mean, if you’re at four to 500, gosh, you’ve been blessed. God’s been sending more people your direction. How do we steward our people well? And it actually starts with you as the leader. You’re the primary shepherd; you’re the primary leader in your church. And it begins with how you answer the question, “What can I do to steward the people around me well?” And interestingly, and I think surprisingly to a lot of pastors, it comes back to you have to start to empower people in their areas of gifting by giving away some of what you are holding onto.
Ron:
Yeah, that’s really good. Hey, let’s get to the second question. So this is from Alan. Alan asked, “We have three services currently. Our middle service is over the seating lid. How can we move people to other services to free up room?”
Sean:
Well, Alan, welcome to life with three services. This is a never-ending tension in my experience. And I’ve had this conversation countless times over the last couple of years with churches that have moved to or are moving to three services. That middle service time is still the most attended service in most churches that I talk to. I really can’t recall, Ron, a church I’ve talked to that said their middle is not their biggest. So I think what you’ve done is you’ve just identified a tension that you’re going to manage forever, as long as you have three services on Sunday morning. And in my experience with the churches we work with across North America at least, Sunday morning between 8:00 AM and noon is still the primary time that people want to attend church, again, in North America. And so you are going to have to find, how many services based on our style, our approach, can we fit into that window?
Typically for churches, it’s three. So there’s no getting around it. There’s going to be a middle service that’s somewhere between, I don’t know, 9:30 and 10:30. That’s going to be the time where most people are awake, most people are ready to get to church. So this is an ongoing tension. And I talked about it on a recent episode. I just stumbled across a great analogy for tension. I’m a guitar player, Ron, and a guitar string has a beautiful amount of tension on it. When it has the right tension in place, you can play strings together, and it makes amazing music. It comes from the tension in those strings, right? And I think that in the church, in leadership, we have some tensions like that. They’re really beautiful tensions, but it’s not something that’s going to go away. In fact, if the tension does go away, there’s probably something wrong. Your guitar stops sounding good at that point.
So I think you have to be prepared for an ongoing vision cast away from the middle service. You have to be prepared that week after week, you’ve got to be reminding the core of your church. You have to be reminding your leadership, “We’re trying to create more space because this is the primary time that new people who are checking out our church are probably going to choose to attend.” And that ongoing vision cast is going to hit some weeks. It’s going to miss some weeks. It’s not going to feel perfect, but it’s just a tension that will always exist. There’s no easy solution to this. I’ve not run across a church that’s found a way to mitigate the middle service being full. It’s just something that you have to lean into, and you’ll probably say it until you’re sick to your stomach. And at that point, that’s probably when people are just hearing it. Do you have anything to add to that, Ron?
Ron:
You know, it is. It’s a tension that I hear everywhere. And personal experience at our own church, we went through the same thing, middle service being the problem, but we were growing, and we needed room. And so we did try—and this may not be for everybody—but we did try to go to four services, because what that created was two middle services. It’s the same issue. The middle two are the largest ones. But it helped us do that.
Before we got to the point of going to four services, we did try to create some opportunity around that last service where we could hang out longer. We just did some family-oriented things to try to get the families to go to that last service and free up that space that was needed in the middle one. And so it was just kind of creating that FOMO, you know, people just didn’t want to miss out because this event or this activity was happening after service. And it just drew people to come over. So you kind of got to play with it. It probably is adaptable to churches and certain environments and whatever works for them culturally. But that was some things that we did. And we created two middle services to help with that tension.
Sean:
That’s a good idea, Ron. And for you guys there in Southern California, probably after that second service, beautiful weather outside, great things that you can do. I mean, that’s more of a draw. And so that’s right, your context, the area of the country you’re doing ministry in—what can we do outside, inside? What can we do to be a draw? I think that’s helpful. So that’s a great idea.
Ron:
Hey, Sean, next question from Drew. And this came through Instagram, another place in which to send these questions in. “What are some roles that the campus pastor cannot delegate?”
Sean:
Oh, Drew, I love this question. That’s an excellent question. So first of all, there’s so many churches that are going multisite or are multisite and expanding right now, Ron, and we just have lots of new campus pastors, people new in that role that are trying to figure it out. And it’s a unique role, right? It is a second chair role. In the healthiest of situations, it’s a role where you come in and you’re really implementing somebody else’s vision. You’re really implementing a playbook that somebody else has developed, and you have to be willing to adapt to that, to run it at your campus and be responsible for the outcomes there.
So that kind of brings me to one of the roles they can’t delegate. And this might seem, I don’t know, maybe a little counterintuitive, but I think you have to be one of the primary cheerleaders for your lead pastor and your leadership team and the vision that they’ve established for the church for the future. If you aren’t carrying that vision to your campus, excited about it and implementing it well, the natural tendency is going to be for you to pull your campus in a different direction. And that’s not healthy. That’s not a win for the church. We’ve had so many churches that have gone multisite, done some things the wrong way. One of them is hiring the wrong campus pastor, meaning the gifting of that person wasn’t a good fit for the role. And they’ve ended up unintentionally church planting, un-multisiting. And that’s not a win. That’s not what the church is looking for. So you have to be confident that you can fully establish and support your leadership team, specifically your lead pastor, in that vision in your local context.
The other is, I don’t think you can delegate the primary leadership for the staff at your campus. And this gets confusing in multisite sometimes because sometimes there’s a misperception that there’s a solid line that leads back to our lead strategist for a ministry area. So your kids’ ministry leader might feel like, based on some either miscommunication or unclear leadership structure, they report back to your central kids strategist. In healthy multisite churches, that’s not the case. The direct report is actually to the campus pastor. The campus pastor needs to be able to fully lead their staff team at the local campus in order to get the ministry done well there. Now there’s a dotted line that goes back to that kids ministry director. And this is the difference we talk about between authority and influence. Campus pastor has the authority, central strategist has the influence.
And so you can’t be, and you shouldn’t be, delegating the leadership of your staff, accountability for outcomes, the encouragement, the prayer for them, the knowing their family’s names, back to a central strategist. That’s your job. And when you start to do that, or when you allow it to happen, the leadership structure and ultimately the health of your campus will start to break down. So those are two quick ones that come to mind for me, Ron, in terms of what the campus pastor can’t delegate. I actually think, based on Drew’s question, we need to do some more content on that. Is there anything that comes to mind for you?
Ron:
I would reiterate what you said, the cheerleader back. If there’s a playbook that is looking back to the overall church vision, mission field, all that, that campus pastor’s constantly pointing back towards it and not trying to lead the team away from it. I’ve just seen too many churches get into the “we, they” issue. And a campus pastor is the one to say, “Nope, it’s us. It’s not we, they.”
Sean:
That’s right. Yeah. And it goes back to the principle of, you know, in a healthy multisite church, we’re one church in multiple locations. We are replicating who we are in many different places because we’re replicating out of one place of health and now replicating into other areas. And a lot of churches—I mentioned the mistake that they make in hiring campus pastors—they hire first chair leaders. Really people who are wired up to be lead pastors. We need to bless them to go plant a church. Church planting’s an amazing strategy too. Let’s give them some people, some money, pray for them, go out and start a church, because that’s how God’s wired you. But too many times we make the mistake of just looking at, “This person looks like me and my lead pastor role and my lead pastor giftings, they’d be great at leading that campus over there.” And then we find out that’s not their wiring. So that has to be crystal clear, especially early on in identifying your campus pastors. One of the most important decisions you’ll make when you’re going multisite or adding new locations.
Ron:
All right. Next one, Sean. Tiana, she asks, “What are some baseline questions or items to evaluate when trying to determine if a program or an initiative needs to be cut?” Or she threw in there an Unstuck word, “pruned to make room for more fruit.” So in other words, what can we cut back on so that the tree can grow and be healthy? How do we evaluate that?
Sean:
Awesome question. Yeah, and this one’s tricky. I mean, churches are typically not very good at pruning, right? It’s hard to stop things, especially in established churches where something’s run for a long time, and there’s a number of people—maybe it’s a small number, but there’s still a number of people who are attached to that thing. And I think for me—and we’ve led a number of churches through this process of identifying what to prune—one of the questions comes back to, does this help people move along our discipleship pathway? And one of the struggles for churches who haven’t clearly defined what is our spiritual formation process, they struggle to prune things because they can’t answer that question. If at the end of the day we’re looking at something we do—it gets resources, time, people, communication—and it doesn’t help people move along spiritually, then it’s something we should at least reconsider.
And I think there’s a couple of ways we can look at it when we identify a program that might need to go or might not serve our primary strategies. We can either pause or stop. Not everything is a “we have to cut it.” Some things it might be obvious, but there are other things where we just can pause for a season. The best example of this was probably the pandemic and what we went through. There were so many things we had to pause, right? Ron, you were there in California. You guys paused for a long time. Most churches that I talked to had the experience of some things just didn’t come back because they were paused, and we recognized either they weren’t needed, or we don’t have the resources, or nobody missed them. And so we didn’t bring them back.
Well, you can still do that. You don’t need the interruption of the pandemic. You can hit pause on things. Could be for the summer. Could just be for a specific season. You can also recognize, do those things need to come back after the pause? And some may not. So does it serve our people—help people down our discipleship pathway? And then what’s the step with it? Do we need to pause or is it a hard stop on what we’re doing? Ron, you’ve worked with churches in this, and especially some really stuck churches that are over-programmed. What have you seen? What’s worked for them?
Ron:
Yeah, not only have I worked with churches, but experienced it at our own church, where we would annually take every event, every program that touches the leadership team and allow it to go on the board. And everyone holds loosely, because you could tell if people are gripping onto it, that’s an unhealthy place to be. If we take everything and say we’re going to evaluate and make sure that this fits our vision and where we’re heading, that there’s alignment that is happening, then we know we can keep moving forward. But when there’s not alignment, we need to make some clear-cut action steps with that.
And so the discipleship pathway, as you mentioned, I think becomes a great grid in which to evaluate. If people don’t have the discipleship pathway, again, another reason to engage the Unstuck team to help with that. But that is a primary grid in which to put everything through, because if it doesn’t align with the steps that are indicated as one’s growth spiritually and where the church is heading, then those ministries, programs, events need to be on the chopping board, if you will. And not feel bad.
Or even, like you mentioned the word “pause,” sometimes it’s just a pause to say, “Let’s rethink this,” because it started one way. We developed the discipleship pathway further and now the alignment has gone askew. And so let’s reevaluate, and we can relaunch at another time when we’ve rethought it. And so I think the intention of having that discipleship pathway—you know, we used to just use a simple grid to say, “Hey, what are the amount of resources this takes for the return on the investment, the ROI, or the kingdom impact?” Is this producing life change? Is this producing people coming to know Jesus? And if not, why are we doing it? Ask the hard questions. And so I think having those grids and doing it often—like I said, we would do house cleaning once a year, say every ministry goes on the board and let’s make sure that we are in alignment with our vision.
Sean:
Yeah. And we actually have a tool to help churches with this on our Resource Hub. So if any listeners are subscribed to the Resource Hub, you can go in there in our documents folder, and there’s a pruning tool in there that’ll guide you through: How do we have this conversation? How do I lead it with our leadership team? And actually a chart to work through and capture the conversation.
Ron:
Sean, let’s jump to the next question. Here’s James, and he asked, “How do you prioritize all the initiatives from a strategic planning time with the Unstuck Group? We’re looking at reorganizing, creating and implementing a new discipleship pathway, launching a multisite, and doing a building remodel.” They’ve got some significant things on their plate. How do they prioritize those things going forward?
Sean:
Why can’t you do all of that at once, James? I’m kidding. Yeah, no, you shouldn’t. And honestly—Ron, you know this—but as we lead teams through this conversation and at the end of the process, kind of defining what are the key areas that we need to focus on, what needs action right now, we’ll do a long list of different types of initiatives, projects, things the teams need to develop or work on. And from that long list, we have to narrow it down. And this is one of the hardest things we do, because we’ll tell teams, “You might have 14 things on your long list, and eight of them feel urgent. You can’t do all of those urgent things at once.” So we don’t allow teams to really identify any more than three initiatives at any one time to focus on.
Honestly, if I could get teams down to one initiative, I’d be thrilled. They wouldn’t be. So three is a happy medium. But those three initiatives are usually the ones that rise to the top with the most energy, feel the most urgency from the team that’s in the room as we’re having the planning conversation. So what I’ll actually do is we’ll take the long list of initiatives and I’ll just help those churches identify what’s phase one. What feels the absolute most urgent? We have to get it done. And it might be in the next six months. It might be in the next nine months. But these are things—and maybe even sequentially with the other initiatives we’ve identified—have to get done first. Then we’ll look at what’s phase two, and we’ll identify three phase two things. And we’ll just say, from this list, after we get phase one done, here’s the next phase we’ll pick up.
And there’s not always a set time on this. An initiative could take up to 12 months, but your team might get it knocked out in six. Fantastic. Let’s pick up a phase two initiative then and move it forward. And then the phase three initiatives, I will just note all of the rest of the items on the long list are phase three, because here’s what I’ve found, Ron: within a 12-month time period, churches can’t do more than phase one and phase two. And often when they come back to phase three, 12 months later, all of their ideas in the long list—or a good number of them—would be completely different, because we’re in a different place as a church at that point, right? So phase three is not even as helpful. It kind of serves as a long list for our brainstorming for our next planning, next year.
So the reason for all of this is that ministry is busy. Ministry is a whirlwind. There are a lot of other things going on. And if we try to take eight or 10 other things that we’re doing and embed them into all of the rest of the ministry that has to happen, we’re either not going to get them done, and we’re going to be really frustrated, or we’re not going to get them done well. So we really have to have discipline to focus on just what are the few things that our team feels are most urgent today that need to get accomplished. And then after that, we need to set a rhythm for accomplishing those things. We use 90 days. So after we identify our initiatives, we’re going to sit down and just plan out tasks for 90 days and try to build that habit with the church, because when we can be consistently strategically obedient, sitting down every 90 days and just saying, “Here’s what needs to get done,” we can get a whole lot more done in the whirlwind of ministry than we could otherwise.
So, Ron, again, I’m going to bounce this back to you, because you’re with churches all the time working through this. What do you see as far as how we prioritize?
Ron:
Yeah, I too. I’d rather see them go after one and hit it out of the park and do really well rather than try to do three, four, five things mediocre. And so to do one thing well and celebrate the win and then move on to the next is a much better rhythm and healthier stride for the team. And so try to focus on one, rise one to the top, say this is the most important win right now. And we’re going to get the team, we’re going to get others to have buy-in. We’re going to focus on this initiative. And the quicker we get it done, then we can move something from the back of the stove to the front. And so it gives us opportunity to move forward. But without focusing on one thing, we’re just going to take small bites out of each thing. So go after one, celebrate the win, and then move on to the next.
Sean:
That’s good.
Ron:
All right. Sean, let’s move to the last question. Keith, he asked—“On our phases of multisite webinar that happened back in May, I guess you guys had run out of time to really talk this all the way through, but there was a statement that was made that said, ‘Jesse has cracked the rural church multisite code in Iowa.’ Tell me more. Tell me more.”
Sean:
Yeah. Great question. So Jesse Tink is one of the consultants on our team. He’s been a consultant with us for nine years. Jesse told a little bit of his story, but Jesse started actually in worship at his church, moved into a campus pastor role, moved into an executive pastor role, and is now the lead pastor at Prairie Lakes. Prairie Lakes is a church of seven locations across Iowa. And what’s fascinating about Prairie Lakes, they are a multisite church doing primarily rural ministry. I might get the number wrong, but I think Jesse said the largest city they’re in is maybe 60,000, maybe 75,000, something like that. So that’s a big city for them. They also have campuses in towns of about 3,000. So there is a wide range of population density in the areas that they’re going to, because they’re doing rural multisite ministry in Iowa.
They’re one of the healthiest multisite churches that we’ve run into. They’re a growing multisite church that’s found ways in rural contexts and smaller populations to reach broader groups of people. Of course, in rural ministry, people will generally drive farther. You know, that 20-minute window that we talk about extends a little bit with rural campuses. And what’s interesting, Ron, there are so many churches that I’ve had connection with over the last couple of years that are in rural areas that need more healthy churches that are considering multisite. And a lot of these churches are growing, and percentage-wise, they are some of the largest churches, I think, in North America. I mean, when you have a church of 800 people in a town of 3,000, that’s a huge church, right? So as we look at their percentage and their draw in areas of population density—and of course they’re drawing from regions, not just those towns that they’re in—they’re doing something right.
They’re really healthy. They’re reaching people. They have clear discipleship steps. They have high levels of leadership engagement. It’s really amazing. So yeah, somebody made the comment, “Jesse has kind of cracked the code on that.” I don’t know that Jesse would say that. And actually next week, Ron, I start a four-week series with Jesse here on the podcast where we’re going to talk about how to prepare for multisite. So whoever asked that question, lean into that series, because we’re going to spend four weeks hearing from Jesse and what they’ve learned at Prairie Lakes. And I think it’ll be really, really helpful. But rural multisite is a growing trend that we see, and we see a lot of healthy churches in that space. So it’s a really pretty incredible thing to see happening.
Ron:
A lot of really great questions today. Sean, any final thoughts before we wrap up today’s conversation?
Sean:
Ron, I don’t know about you. I just love the curious nature of the listeners to the podcast and the webinar. I mean, certainly we don’t have it all figured out over here. We’re trying to share what we know and what we learn. I learned years ago—you know, I spent 15 years in the local church, and when I took this position at the Unstuck Group, which is a job I never thought I would have, Ron, never thought I would be doing this, but I love it—and I learned that that broader perspective would have been really helpful to me when I was in my local church role, just to see the trends and look at the scope of the Big C Church with a little bit different view than I had in my local church. And so I just appreciate the humility of the listeners, of the people submitting questions, that they want to learn.
They want to be better. And I think the best leaders are humble leaders. They’re interested in learning from anybody. And so I would just say continue to lean into that, not just from us and the content that we put out—hopefully it’s helpful—but any source where you can find to learn from, it will make you a better leader. You’re either going to learn some things that you want to do and lean into, or, just as helpful, you might learn some things you don’t want to do. So lean into that, have open hands, be a humble leader, and I think it’ll pay off in the long run. Ron, I want to give you the last word too, because you, again, have a ton of ministry experience. From your perspective, what do you hear from these questions?
Ron:
Yeah, I just love that there’s questions. I love when leaders can ask questions and not have to pretend like they have it all together. Here at the Unstuck Group, we don’t come in with any prescribed plan. We are hoping to draw content out of you of what’s happening in your particular situation, your proximity, your location, that kind of thing. And with that, develop a plan specifically for you and your church and your area.
And so for me, it’s all about a word that we use a lot around the Unstuck Group, and that’s called alignment. If we can align with the vision that we have for us, we will get out of the whirlwind of the every-seven-day rhythm that we have to do. I mean, every seven days it’s going to be Sunday morning. We have to make it happen. No doubt. But when we have a clear, concise, compelling vision moving forward, we can have some strategic alignment allowing us to move things forward for greater growth, more people coming to know who Jesus is, and more people growing in their relationship with Jesus. And so I just encourage people, if this is an opportunity for you to enlist The Unstuck Group, let us come and ask the questions of you so that you can have a plan in front of you and exercise that plan to reach people for Jesus.
Sean:
Well, thanks for tuning into this quarter’s Ask Anything episode. If you have a question that you’d like us to address on the next episode, you can submit your questions by calling our number, 615-398-9171. I’ll say that again: 615-398-9171. Leave us a voicemail there or send us a message, like one of our listeners did today on Instagram or X. And like Ron said, we love helping pastors lead Unstuck Churches. You can learn more about what we do at theunstuckgroup.com. And then last thing, if this podcast has been helpful, would you leave us a review on whatever platform you’re listening on? It takes just a few seconds, but it helps more church leaders find these conversations. All right, as I mentioned, next week I’m back to start a four-week series with Jesse Tink on how you can prepare and be ready for multisite. So we’ll see you then.
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