Management Is Not a Dirty Word (Part 1)
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People-oriented people are often the ones who end up in ministry. And as people-oriented people, we’ll do anything to protect our relationships with our staff (or, rather, we’ll avoid anything that would disrupt them).
And yet, we are called to lead each person God has placed in our care. And part of leadership is management.
We’re starting a new series called “Management Is Not a Dirty Word,” where we’ll share practical tools every ministry needs to have in its tool belt to lead healthy, effective and winning teams.
In this episode on leadership and management, I had the opportunity to sit down with Lance Witt, longtime friend of The Unstuck Group, founder of Replenish ministries and author of the book High-Impact Teams: Where Healthy Meets High Performance.
Management is the process of reaching organizational goals by working with and through people and organizational resources. [episode 416] #unstuckchurch Share on X Management and leadership are not contradictory, opposing forces, but complementary forces. [episode 416] #unstuckchurch Share on X Job #1 of a manager is having people who get the results the organization is looking for. [episode 416] #unstuckchurch Share on X Visionaries bring the idea. Integrators pull it off. [episode 416] #unstuckchurch Share on X
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More Episodes In This Series
Developing a Feedback Culture – Episode 417
Numbers Are Not the Enemy – Episode 418
How to Train Your Managers – Episode 419
Hiring & Managing Gen Z Leaders (with Russ Ewell) – Episode 420
Transcript
Sean:
I will bet there’s no shortage of things happening in your church. Kids ministry, students, groups, outreaches, special events. The list probably goes on. Keeping communication clear across it all can be exhausting. With ChurchCopy.AI, you can turn a simple event description into a complete communication package: emails, posts, text, and more. All working together to create awareness, build anticipation, and provide follow-up. And it’s all organized in one place in your church’s voice. You can get started for free at churchcopy.ai/unstuck. That’s churchcopy.ai/unstuck.
Well, welcome to the Unstuck Church Podcast. I’m Sean, your host here again with Amy Anderson. And today, we’re kicking off a new series called Management is Not a Dirty Word. Amy Management isn’t typically a topic that generates a lot of excitement for people, but I know that you have a lot of energy about what we’re gonna be covering in this series. So tell us why you wanted to spend a few weeks on the topics related to effective management.
Amy:
Because it is an exciting topic. I can just feel our listeners leaning in right now.
Sean:
Yes, absolutely.
Amy:
I mean, who’s talking about it? No one’s talking about it, but we are. Well, in all seriousness, I am really excited about this series. I mean, every church we serve is an organization. And organizational principles transcend any organization, whether it’s a ministry, a nonprofit, a business, or a sports team. But so often, Sean, I think churches can avoid good management because it feels too corporate. It works against the church family feel that we like, but management is not a dirty word. It’s essential, I think, to lead a healthy and high-performing team. So in this series, we’re gonna talk about just very practical tools that I think every ministry leader needs to have in their tool belt if they’re gonna lead healthy and effective and winning teams.
Sean:
Yep. And today we have a really fun way to kick off the series, and I honestly mean that it’s gonna be really fun. Amy, you had the opportunity to sit down with one of our favorite people, Lance Witt. The author of the book, “High-Impact Teams.” Can you tell us a little bit about Lance?
Amy:
Yeah. Well, Lance is a longtime friend of the Unstuck Group. In fact, for the churches I’ve served that are listening, they probably are recognizing his name because I think I pull out a Lance Witt quote probably once or twice every staffing and structure review I do. But he is currently the founder of Replenish Ministries, which is a ministry dedicated to helping people live and lead from a healthy soul. Prior to that, he was the executive pastor at Saddleback Church through all of those purpose-driven years in Southern California. And before that was a senior pastor for 20 years. So Lance knows ministry and he knows teams. He has had just some great perspectives to share on why management matters. And honestly, I just like to talk to Lance. Any chance I get. So I’m glad we have him on the show today.
Sean:
Yeah. I’m excited to share the interview today. And after the interview, Amy and I will share some key takeaways from today’s conversation. So here’s the interview with Amy and Lance.
Amy:
Well, Lance Witt, it is always an absolute joy to have you on the podcast. I think this is probably your fifth or sixth showing over the past couple of years. But thank you for joining us today. Why don’t you tell our listeners where you’re joining us from?
Lance:
I actually just got home this morning from Florida, but I am in my home office in Castle Rock, Colorado. And I am honored to do this with you. You are absolutely one of my favorite people, and I’m not joking when I say that. Like, I just love the years we’ve been able to know each other and have such respect for you and The Unstuck Group. And so anyway, just an honor to spend a few minutes with you.
Amy:
And we had a chance to work together in the Colorado area. We did a multi-site cohort there, and then you joined us for the executive pastor cohort. So thanks for pouring into those leaders as well. Well, let me get into our content today about management. You know, in your book you mentioned that management has gotten a bad rap over the past 30 years. Why do you think we’ve created this false dichotomy between leadership and management, where leadership sounds like the good one and management is like “Womp womp wah”?
Lance:
Well, I think to really understand it, you really do have to speak to someone kind of in my age demographic and take a step back in history. Because if you are 50 or younger listening to this podcast, there hasn’t been a day in the world of church ministry where leadership has not been a major focus. But when I went into ministry, all the talk was around systematic theology, Greek and Hebrew church history, homiletics, and I never had a class or read a book on leadership. And then guys like John Maxwell and Rick Warren and Bill Hybels began to pop on the scene and they began to talk about leadership. And I remember in my day-to-day life, I wasn’t accessing my Greek or Hebrew or church history, but I desperately needed to know how to lead a congregation. So these guys were like water in a desert. And I soaked up every leadership book, every conference I could go to.
And so as a result, there’s been this massive shift so that over the last 35 to 40 years, we’ve been absolutely obsessed with leadership. And so we began to see leaders as those people who cast vision, who have great faith, who look into the future. They’re strategic, they’re risk takers and managers kind of began to be characterized as, oh, those are the systems people, the guardians of policy, the no people in the organization. They maintain this status quo. And so what I think sort of inadvertently happened is leadership was idolized and management along the way sort of got demonized. And I think it’s very unfortunate that we couldn’t have elevated leadership while also elevating the virtues of management.
Amy:
Yes. Yeah. Isn’t that true? You know, you share several quotes that position in your book, “High-Impact Teams,” you share several quotes that position managers kind of negatively compared to leaders. How has this characterization impacted organizations and the people who serve in management roles?
Lance:
Well, I think just to have some context, we should actually share one or two of those quotes, which I think are such great examples. So Peter Drucker, who was kind of a guru of business thought, said, “So much of what we call management consists in making it difficult for people to work.” Or Warren Bennis, who I love Warren Bennis stuff, but he says, “The manager relies on control, but the leader inspires trust”. Well, gosh, when you read stuff like that, no wonder no one wants to put on the badge that says, I’m a manager. And often when I teach on this, when I’m with church teams, I’d go, Hey, if we’re really brutally honest, what we’ve really taught in the church over the last 30 years is leaders are winners and managers are losers. And I just think that’s really unfortunate.
Amy:
Isn’t that true.
Lance:
And so here’s a definition I’ve come up with for good management. And I think it doesn’t position it as a loser position. I think management is the process of reaching organizational goals by working with and through people and organizational resources. Like they actually help accomplish the vision. And if anybody on the podcast has ever read the book “Rocket Fuel,” you know, the two key positions that they talk about in the organization are the visionary and the integrator. And I like that word integrator, it sounds a little less off-putting than manager. But the truth is, in every church, every nonprofit, every business, there’s way more people who have an integrator role than have a visionary role. So part of what I wanted to do in the book was kind of say, “Hey, let’s position management and leadership not as contradictory, not as opposing forces, but as complementary forces.”
But to go back to your question, I think that the impact in the organization, Amy, has really been twofold. Number one, because we’ve downplayed or minimized the role of management, we’ve done very little to train people in good management skills. So we hire people usually in the world of church, we hire them, and early on they’re doers. But then over time, if they’re competent and they do a good job, they end up in a management role. And we just assume that the same skills that got them there in the first place are gonna make them succeed as a manager. And I think that is a glaring gap in the church. Like, we’ve got to do a better job of training people in good management skills. And then I think the second impact is—I’m gonna fill the gap with trust here—but we have unintentionally undervalued those who hold management roles and not really set them up to succeed. And so I think because of that, we have created some real barriers to effectiveness because of those realities.
Amy:
Honestly, what you just said, that’s the heart behind this series that we’re doing. I’m with churches almost every week of the year, or at least it seems like it, and such great people, you know, they’ve got their spiritual gifting, they’ve got their passions, they’ve got their vision. But anybody who has people that they’re leading, you need some management tools. You need to understand managers are great. And by the way, we use that concept of visionary/integrator when we do staffing and structure reviews. Because really what we want is that lead pastor to be the visionary, but then he’s gotta have those integrators around him. Otherwise, it just fizzles out. We won’t actually see that vision come to fruition. Well, you write that leadership and management are not mutually exclusive. Can you just explain how these roles really complement one another in an organizational setting?
Lance:
Yeah, I’ve given a lot of thought through the years to this, and kind of my conclusion is that very few of us have a role where we only get to do leadership. For most of us, I would say there is a leadership function to what we do to inspire people to paint a picture of the preferred future of the vision, to help people understand why they should volunteer in our church. To me, all that’s on the more leadership side, but then there’s this complementary side of I have to actually get stuff done and execute so that the vision can come to fruition.
And I was thinking about this even earlier today, just thinking about this podcast. Like it’s really a picture of the body of Christ. Again, in scripture, when you go to first Corinthians 12, it doesn’t denigrate any part of the body. Every part of the body has its own function. And he says even some of the more behind the scenes parts of the body are actually some of the most valuable parts. And so we need both leaders and managers.
So in the book, I kind of created this little chart that sort of tries to help us see the complementary nature of leadership and management. So in the book I talk about that leaders cast vision. They point the way to the mountain that the organization is gonna go after, but managers implement the vision. That’s that sort of integrator role. Leaders define the destination, but managers build the road. Leaders live in the future. They are always opportunistic, looking out ahead, managers appropriately live a little bit more in the now. Like, what are we gonna do next week and next month?
Leaders focus on the what and the why. Managers are often asking the how question. I remember when I worked with Rick Warren, one of the guys that I had preceded me in sort of an executive pastoral, he said, “Hey pastor, when Rick’s in brainstorming mode and vision casting mode, don’t go into problem-solving mode and keep your how questions for later. Because if you bring those into a vision conversation, you’re gonna see Rick glaze over.” And I did witness that and probably contributed to it a few times, but couple of other things. Leaders focus on the ends; managers focus on the means, like how are we gonna get there?
Amy:
Good, I like that.
Lance:
And then leaders, I like that leaders provide inspiration. Managers deliver execution. And so again, both matter, both are hand in glove, complementary in terms of getting the vision accomplished.
Amy:
Yeah. I thought you were gonna say leaders—what was the last one?
Lance:
Provide inspiration, managers deliver—
Amy:
I thought you were gonna say managers provide direction. Right? They also do that.
Lance:
Yes. Yes. I could have said leaders provide inspiration and managers provide the perspiration, the blood, sweat and tears to actually get that vision done.
Amy:
So funny. Well, in the book also, you use the story of Moses and Jethro to kind of provide some powerful insights about management systems. What are some based on that, what are some of the warning signs that an organization has a broken management system like Moses did?
Lance:
Yeah, I love that passage in Exodus 18, and I think every one of us would agree, like Moses was really a gifted leader.
Amy:
He’s pretty good.
Lance:
Yeah, I think he could be featured in the leadership summit. But in Exodus 18, I’m convinced what you have is not really so much a leadership problem as Moses really having a management issue and his kind of poor management skills were put on display in Exodus 18. And as a result, he becomes the bottleneck for the entire nation. And so the big issue in Exodus 18 is a lack of management system. If you remember, Moses was the single decision maker for 2 million people until his father-in-law showed up one day. And I guess it was bring your father-in-law to work day because he goes and he watches Moses.
And the most impressive thing maybe about Exodus 18 is he actually listens to his father-in-law. And his father-in-law says, Hey, what you’re doing is nuts. You’re here from morning till evening and you’re wearing yourself out and you’re wearing the people out. So it was stressful and frustrating and exhausting for the entire nation, but it wasn’t a party for Moses either. He was on the fast track, I think to burnout. And then I think, so to me, some of the warning signs are things like, and you see it in the passage, I think there was part of what Jethro coaches Moses on is you’ve lost clarity around what your priority, Moses. You’re not doing what only you can do, which was really to train other leaders and then to pray and intercede like your job is to talk on behalf of God to people and talk on behalf of people to God. But Moses, you are now living in the day-to-day grind of making decisions that as a leader of leaders of leaders, you shouldn’t be doing. And so there was a lack of clear priorities. And I think whenever you have that, you end up with kind of a bottleneck in the ministry and ineffectiveness.
I think also another warning sign is the lack of training. Like instead of making every decision, Moses needed to train some other people who could step in the gap and make some decisions that were not at his level but could be delegated down. So again, I think you go, okay, are we doing a good job of training our people who step into management positions? Are we helping them succeed as managers? And then I think every good manager loves good systems. And Moses had a lack of good systems. In fact, I would say in Exodus 18, Moses was the system. And that’s a problem. And I think in a lot of churches, because we’re trained up as doers, we become the system. So there’s not a well-thought-through process. We figure it out kind of as we go along. We don’t document anything. And so as a result, we don’t have anything that can be replicated because we are the system. And when we go or when we’re out sick, the system is out.
And then the last warning sign I think we see clearly in Exodus 18 is a lack of delegation. So again, Moses wasn’t doing what only he could do, he was doing it all. And Jethro’s thing was, Hey, you gotta find faithful men and women delegate this down, give them appropriate span of care. So there’s tens, there’s fifties, there’s hundreds, there’s thousands. And in a like understanding who your people are and what they can handle at the time. There’s one other one I do wanna mention though it’s not mentioned in Exodus 18, but I think it is a huge issue and a warning sign for churches that are ineffective. And that is, we don’t have ongoing performance and coaching conversations, because we suffer from terminal niceness. We don’t have the clear, honest, and kind, but clear conversations around people’s performance and coaching. And I think when I think about where managers have huge gaps, usually that’s one of them.
Amy:
We’re actually gonna talk about that next week on the podcast.
Lance:
Good!
Amy:
Just on being able to give feedback. And I could have written a book on it, maybe I should write a book on it. But it’s definitely something most teams are lacking because we are nice people. Those of us in ministry. Well, you mentioned that when we have these broken management systems, that the answer is not just to work harder. What should leaders do instead if they find the broken management systems?
Lance:
Well, I think first off is maybe just to take a step back and kind of go, okay, what’s the job of a manager and what makes a good manager? We would say, so I think for a leader to get really clear around, okay, what does a manager need? And we would say, well, they ought to be good listeners. They ought to be people-people, like they have good people skills. They communicate well and often. And I go, yeah, all those are great, but that’s not job one of a manager. I think job one of a manager is you gotta have people who get the results the organization is looking for. All those other attributes are great, but they are for the purpose of the manager getting the results, the mission, the ministry needs that the church needs. And I remember one day reading that and going, oh, that is so helpful to go. Yeah. Getting results is really job one. Job two of a manager is to keep and retain the good people who are getting those results. So I think if I’m a leader, I wanna go. Yeah. When I think about a manager, that’s what I’m asking them to do.
But I think also as a leader, if you’re leading other department heads or whatever, all of us need to become a student of good management, and I think about some resources like the “Four Disciplines of Execution,” some of the Lencioni stuff is helpful. A little book called the “Coaching Habit,” or learning how to have effective meetings, like go to school on some of the good resources. And you know, I like to read “Harvard Business Review.” There’s some great stuff in there on management. And so become a student of good management. And that’s not unspiritual. It’s actually, it’s a good measure of our stewardship when we are executing good management.
And then I’d say, if you aren’t naturally good at this, get some help. Bring in some, a group like the Unstuck group, or go find a consultant or someone who’s been a rockstar executive pastor and get some coaching and get them to come in and look at your systems and evaluate the team. And like, there’s some good resources and help out there of people who are really good at this, just naturally. But they also have great experience. And then I would say, when I think about this practically, like you need a system for helping your people create and execute their ministry plans. Because we live in the whirlwind of Sundays always coming, often, we don’t have a good game plan. Like if you walk up to a staff member and said, Hey, what are your ministry goals for this quarter? What are your priorities? What are you focused on in the next week or month? Often you’ll meet the deer in the headlights kind of stare.
Amy:
“That’s a really good question.”
Lance:
Yeah.
Amy:
And then that was the most common answer when I used to interview ministry leaders. Like, how do you know if you’re winning in your role? And they would go, “Huh, that’s a really good question.” That’s a solvable problem. We can solve that one.
Lance:
And then I think you’re gonna get to this next week in your podcast, but I would go, we’ve gotta normalize candid feedback and coaching, like getting in your culture. And again, lead pastor, if you’re listening to this, I would say that means you have to invite candid feedback yourself. If you wanna normalize that in the culture, you can’t be the one person who’s off limits when it comes to feedback. You need to lean in.
And then the last sort of practical thing I would say on this, if you’re a leader listening to this and wanting to go like, how do we increase our management game and get better at this? I would say develop playbooks for all of your key events and initiatives. I feel like churches all the time are reinventing the wheel when it comes to, Hey, Easter’s coming every year. Christmas is coming every year, your kids’ summer camp program. Like, do you have a playbook? So that when we hand it to that volunteer leader next year, they already know 90% of what they need to do because we have a system and a documented plan and playbook. And again, it’s not sexy; but man, you talk about helping people win when it comes to those things and go, I would just go like, do you have that for every key project initiative and event that you do in your church?
Amy:
You know, one of the things I love that you said, Lance, I think it was the manager second role, and that’s to retain the top talent. And that’s something I tell managers all the time, which is, you need to spend your best time with your best people.
Lance:
So good.
Amy:
Because if you don’t intentionally decide to do that, you spend your best time with all the challenging people. And so that’s another management muscle to develop is how do I spend my best time with my best people? And all those things you suggested on development, you know, to our listeners, if this isn’t an area, if you’ve had good training on, there are so many good resources and you know what you just read and you just start applying things and it builds. It’s like a flywheel effect in good management.
Hey, one other question on the Moses story, you know, Jethro emphasizes finding, I think you said high competency and high character people, and I work with churches all the time who have these leadership gaps. Lance, what would be your council? How can organizations identify and develop these kind of managers? High competency, high character?
Lance:
Yeah, I mean, obviously the first place to start is in the hiring process itself, right? To do some good assessment and make sure that if they’re going to step into a management role, that they actually have the competencies and the natural wiring. Again, we can equip them with tools, but if they’re naturally a visionary, then it may be a challenge for them to really get some of the really competencies around management. So I think obviously starting in the hiring process, doing a good job of vetting assessments, personality tests that are so common these days to help you understand, do they actually have some of that?
Then I think another thing I would do is I would just start again. If I had someone and they were new in this position, I would get them into some coaching with maybe another leader and sit down with someone who’s a little bit ahead in a church that’s a little bit larger, maybe a few more staff and go, Hey, I want you to get an hour a month with somebody like that. We’ll help pay for that. But come with five to 10 of your best questions. Identify what have been some of your pressure points this last month, and get someone who’s in the game on the front lines, in the trenches, get some coaching from them.
And then, like you said, Amy, become a student. Start reading productivity books, management books, listening to some podcasts, and take the best idea or best practice and start integrating those into some of your meetings. I mean, even things like, so simple, but like, how do you do an effective one-on-one? Develop a template with a set of questions that you go, every time I do a one-on-one, I wanna have a little pastoral check-in, but we’re gonna talk about their key priorities. I’m gonna find out what that person needs from me in order to win. I’m gonna let them know what I need from them. I’m gonna give them coaching on maybe something that I observed. So like just developing that template for a one-on-one can be a powerful management tool that you put in your tool belt.
Amy:
What I love about all these ideas that you’re saying to develop in management, you know, sometimes you can read a book about something and you read it, and then you put it down and you move on. When you read books about management or get content around it, if you’re a manager, you’re gonna be eating it up because it’s gonna identify the challenges and problems you have with leading people. And so it’s almost instantly applicable. And it’s very, very helpful. So I love those suggestions. You know, as you wrap up here, you create a helpful kind of companion, comparison, excuse me, between leaders and managers in your book. Can you just elaborate on how these different roles work together to create organizational health in churches?
Lance:
Yeah, so to me it goes back a little bit to the chart I described between where you have a leader and a manager and how they’re complementary. And so for me, I think the way that this really works best is when a leader wisely looks at those who hold management positions and values them, celebrates them, invests in training for them, and applaud sort of good management. Like when we see it happening and we see good systems get into place, or we see that person grow because of a good coaching conversation that the visionary leader honors that and treats it with value.
And then I think on the other side, as those of us who are in management, we have to not see the visionary as, oh, great, here’s another new idea. And could we just one time finish something before we start something new? And I know what that’s like is being wired a little more on the system and process side of things. When we would sometimes say about Rick Warren that he never met an idea he didn’t like he was an entrepreneur, he loved new things, new ideas, and sometimes just about the time you feel like we’re really getting to integrate and implement this thing, he’s off to the next new opportunity. And so I think for those of us who are wired on the process and system side, I have to constantly coach myself like, Hey, Lance, be open to new vision. Like, there’s breakthrough that happens because those of us who are managers can sometimes kind of go get really comfortable with our systems and processes, but the breakthrough comes when that visionary hears from God and takes a risk.
And I’ll tell you just one quick story if I have time. When I was at Saddleback, we were six weeks out, Rick had written the book, “Purpose-Driven Life.” We were six weeks out from launching the campaign, 40 days of purpose. Now it was a massive job just to do it for our church, but we had also invited other churches to do it in the pilot phase of 40 Days of purpose one week behind us. So we were also going to resource 1500 churches doing it at the one week behind us. Well, six weeks out, Rick walks in, I’ll never forget this, I’m meeting with our campaign team, I’m still in therapy over this. But we’re, I’m meeting with the campaign team and Rick walks in and he says, “Hey, this morning in my quiet time, God just convicted me that we’re not showing enough faith that we need exponential faith. And the way we’re gonna define exponential is we’re gonna add a zero to whatever goals you had.” And I remember that we had a goal of launching 300 new small groups and Rick goes, “Great, your goal now is 3000 new groups.”
Well, so we of course after freaking out, had to go completely back to the drawing board. But out of that moment came this idea of the host concept that we had to look at everybody in our church as a potential small group host and could facilitate the night and we’d bring the teaching to them. Well, we didn’t get to 3000, but we did get to 2,491 groups. And it happened because of visionary, walked in the room and challenged us and blew up our current plan. Now on the backside of it, I would also tell you it never would’ve happened if the management and process people hadn’t figured out a roadmap.
Amy:
There you go.
Lance:
So it took the visionary bringing the idea, but it took the integrators to pull it off.
Amy:
So good. Well, Lance, thank you for sharing some of your wisdom with us today. Appreciate you taking the time and I hope that for our listeners, there’s been a nugget in here for you to walk away with today.
Lance:
Thank you, Amy. Always great to be with you.
Sean:
Well, Amy, I’ve learned so much from Lance over the years that we’ve known him. He has years of wisdom and experience that really are invaluable. What did you walk away with this time from your conversation with Lance?
Amy:
Yeah, I think there were some great takeaways from Lance. First, I just hope that everyone who listened to this today understands the need to provide management training for anyone on your team who’s leading other people. And if you’re hiring leaders, that’s a large percentage of your staff team. Like Lance said, very few of us have a role where we only get to do visionary leadership. And I echo his comment that just because someone was a great doer, a great performer doesn’t mean that a promotion to a leader or manager is going to prepare them to actually lead other people. So, you know, examples, guys, of how to start this. You know, if this isn’t a muscle that’s developed, training new managers, read a book together, develop some common language, provide leadership or management training once a month. Get all your people who are leading people together and talk about these things. Let your leaders actually submit input on what they would like to learn and what they wanna get better at when it comes to leading their teams. As anyone who leads people, we all have these pain points and wanna get better at it. Just I encourage you. Start somewhere. Start that flywheel. I’m curious, Sean, what was your key takeaway from today?
Sean:
Well, I just wanna kind of double down on what you just said there, Amy. I think it’s possible that you already have some great managers on your team. You could look around the team and identify one or two people who really do a good job at this already. And so actually just some mentorship as well within your team. Allowing those people who are learning to manage and learning to lead better kind of pair with the people that you’ve seen great results and great evidence of good management in the past is a great way to approach it. So leveraging the people who are part of your team that you’ve already identified have that gifting is another great way to address that.
Well, related to what you just said, Amy, I like how Lance reframed good management as good stewardship. He said, reading books on management isn’t unspiritual, it’s actually just good stewardship.
Amy:
Right. And that gets us back to the heart behind this series. We wanna share perspectives and practical tips on how to become better managers of the people that God has entrusted to your leadership and to your care. So in the weeks to come, we’re gonna talk very practically about, number one, developing the muscle of providing feedback. Lance started talking about that, but we have to get better at feedback if our team members are gonna develop. Second, how to leverage numbers and leverage numbers so that you can help your team members be focused and successful in their roles. And third, we’ll go into some more ideas around how to really train your managers and people. So I hope listeners, I hope you’ll join us all three weeks because management is not a dirty word.
Sean:
That’s right. And if you’d like to learn more about Lance and his ministry Replenish, you can do that. Just go to replenish.net. So on the worldwide web replenish.net, that’s where you can find Lance. We just wanna say thanks for joining us as we kicked off this series over the next several weeks of this series, of course, like Amy mentioned, we’re gonna be talking about how to develop cultures of healthy feedback, why numbers and metrics aren’t your enemy, and then how you to really develop the managers on your team. So we hope you’ll come back for each week of this series. And if you’re a church leader facing some of the challenges that we’re addressing during this series, we’d love to help. We’ve had over 16 years of experience working with over 700 churches, man, it’s incredible. Helping them to align their ministry plans and their team. So if you’d like to start a conversation with us, just visit us at theunstuckgroup.com to learn more. And we’ll be back here next week for the second episode of our series.
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